The government destroys both of these elements in the health-care industry. It is intended to protect people accused of crimes against the state from state tyranny by interposing other ordinary people between the state and the accused. Why do you believe YOU have some special insight into “what must be done”? banks!) $5.00 Markets are the solution in medical care, just as they are in virtually every other area. fly? someone is telling porkie pies. I see being compelled to actually sit on a jury the same as a tax. S 1804 is the Medicare for All Act in the Senate that was introduced on September 13 of this year by Senator Sanders with 16 co-sponsors, all Democrats. Thus, it should be abolished regardless of whether some want it and think it provides “benefits.”. Join Health Over Profit for Everyone (HOPE), The Neo-liberal Turn in American Health Care, as outlined by the Center for American Progress, argued that those who want National Improved Medicare for All, pharmaceutical companies behind the opioid epidemic, receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars, join the monthly education and organizing national calls, Trump, NFL protests and the price of freedom, Trump’s bluster at the UN shows he doesn’t understand North Korea at all, Election, legal disasters, surging Covid cases, economy stumbling: Just “too much winning”, Some liberals and arms-control experts are cheering for war profiteers to be in Biden’s cabinet, ‘Housing is healthcare’: Evictions have exacerbated Covid-19 pandemic, research shows, World AIDS Day is grim reminder of an ongoing epidemic, with 700,000 dead from HIV/AIDS in 2019, The history of the decline and fall of the American empire, Firing squads, poison gas, electric chair: Trump moves to expand ways to kill prisoners, Police officer placed on leave after hitting bystander on video, Rejecting Michèle Flournoy, progressives demand Biden pick Pentagon chief ‘untethered’ from military-industrial complex, The dangerous seduction of ‘going back to normal”, Progressive coalition stages worldwide Black Friday protests to ‘make Amazon pay’, U.S. progressives and a Biden foreign policy, Major US bank promises not to fund Arctic drilling, Inequality gone viral: The obscene numbers. No matter how much I need bread, I do not have a right to steal your wallet or hold up the local bakery to obtain it. U = Uncompromising – we must stay strong and united around the basics that we need to achieve for the National Improved Medicare for All health care system to function. You’re aware, of course, that people can be charged with a crime by a group of people calling themselves “The Government”, whether or not anyone’s rights have been violated. you’re on your own. That is nonsense. We have a “right” to be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects from unreasonable searches and seizures – by *government*. Yes they are. All of these things require scarce resources combined with labor (another scarce resource) to produce the final good. Hence, what if we propose let us close all Universities and ask the other nations to teach and we will pay. However, it is extremely important to the structure of the Canadian system that the gov- ernment delivers health insurance as a public good, not health care. Exactly. The first is the normative judgement that the individual's it rises to the definition extremely clearly. Put Huemer on the top of your “read next” pile. Here’s the thing: It’s not the case that imports are good and exports are bad, it is the case that exports are the cost of imports, and the lower the cost the better. It doesn’t happen. We should worry about both, not just one. Market order emerges from no one being in charge. Do you have the right to demand that the medical system provide life-saving care forever, to the tune of millions of dollars of other people’s taxpayer dollars or services? There are law offices who are training people in India for American Jurisprudence. It’s easy to be pro-trade when your jobs are not in question. I explain why your view is wrong, and you make another disparaging statement devoid of facts. the world would be better if they didn’t. We assumed you were referring to education and medical treatment as products made by hand. You aren’t forcing anyone to pay or provide the service, the government is. They include negative “rights” to life, liberty, and property. President-elect, you are wrong about tariffs. Sometimes taxes are a necessary part of civilisation. Remember how you rejected the laws of supply and demand to argue that restricting the supply of buyers based on race would cause home prices to increase. And I believe you would see a lot fewer fair trials under an-cap because there would be fewer sanctions against impulsive vigilante revenge and more cases where one side was paying those conducting the purportedly “fair” trial. Extract from the Civil Society Report "Spotlight on Sustainable Development 2017" -the new global report assesses how privatization and corporate capture have become obstacles to progress under the 2030 Agenda. Your careless use of the word “investment”- a frequent habit of another person named Barry – has drained almost all meaning from the word. If you judge someone guilty and punish them for an alleged crime without a fair trial then you are violating any meaningful understanding of their rights. Government should build roads, primarily at the State and local levels. He earns $30 million a year (or ~$857,000 per game). Without those guarantees, why would anyone grant any of their powers to the state? Part of the higher cost of medical care these days is the vastly improved state of technology that allows diagnosis and treatment of previously untreatable conditions. We have a right to seek those things, but no one obligated to provide them to us. , ‘Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that she would model new constitutions on the South African constitution, which guarantees that “everyone has the right to have access to health care services, including reproductive health care. It’s necessary to start from first principles that can’t be deduced from any other principle. ”. It regulates how doctors deal with patients, the sorts of training doctors must undergo, and the sorts of insurance they must maintain; all of this convinces fewer Americans to become doctors. What part of “self evident” do you not understand? “The areas which have exponential increases are in industries where the product is still “made by hand”, such as medicine and education.”. but the basic rights are all the same. Choice. We do have a choice. Do you grow all the food you eat? do not endear conservative values to the public.”. to them, it is a benefit. I look forward to your next disingenuous attempt to disparage natural rights because it thwarts your failed ideology that you disingenuously call “progressivism.”. Of course people DO die when they rely on government provided and rationed healthcare. Benthem believed that rights were granted by government, and that individuals had only those rights that other people allowed them. Efforts to introduce universal health coverage in all countries will move healthcare closer towards being a public Free trade increases competition for me, and yet I still preach its value to common people. Firms are always hiring younger, better educated people. I believe Mark Perry posted an excellent article recently about how US manufacturing is, by itself, the 7th largest economy in the world. We will import all services. Or reduce taxes. “Sure, but isn’t that jury a result of your right requiring some kind of action by other people (in this case, sitting on a jury)?”. We all know that no two individuals are exactly the same, but we also know that individuals are the same type of thing: human beings. Lyle, there are issues with all forms of paying for government services. Aristotle was wrong but he was not “disingenuous.” As for trying to justify American slavery, some sincerely believed the argument and some didn’t. Yes. “You’re welcome to your imaginary world, one which is inconsistent with human nature, and the history of civilization.”. Perhaps one of the greatest concerns about S 1804 is the long transition period. How would you justify taking your neighbor’s money for any reason if he didn’t want to give it? At the very least, I think we can acknowledge there is a difference between the right to free speech, which represents no restriction against you but rather against other people to not act, and a trial by jury, which represents a call for people toact? when you build an arch, it must be built just so, or it will fall down. “In which case, you stop mentioning it after the election and hope people forget.”. However, if the internet service company charges me more than we agreed to, then it is stealing from me. You, as an individual, import those things you want but can’t reasonably make for yourself, and export that which you can make easily. A victory this year is that there are bills in the House and Senate that outline a National Improved Medicare for All health care system, and they have record numbers of co-sponsors. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. but that’s no reason for us to emulate them.”. Many of them reveal great economic ignorance. If Senators vote before the September 30 deadline, they only need 50 votes instead of the filibuster-proof 60 votes to pass amendments. Would you claim the same things about plumbing, yard care, bricklaying or pizza making? Education is certainly not “made by hand” any more than McDdonalds Quarter Pounders are “made by hand”. And Jury nullification can work against the rights of the accused even more easily than it can work in their favor. Thanks for the laugh. HR 676 would create a publicly-financed not-for-profit health care system. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. Aristotle made the natural rights argument for slavery. And they are never satisfied. They understand that some people don’tactually want the goods or services provided by monopoly government and don’t wish to pay for what they haven’t asked for, so they must be robbed in order to pay for those things. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. (take, say 1% of awards and mandated settlements – though there might be some moral hazard there). If you liked this article, please donate $5 to keep NationofChange online through November. Ram, not really. Overall, it is a time to be optimistic. Do you make your own soap? We should worry about both, not just one.”. Let me rephrase my question to be clearer: ram doesn’t know, but he’s sure Trump is going to help him. If you get the benefit of what you are being taxed for, it’s okay. Does this mean a man does not have the right to a trial or a jury? I don’t recall anybody saying that. Thus, the excess taxation plus the borrowing is theft. . Major irony: the perceived, 2016 “change” candidate was and is utterly incapable of change. We have a “right” to free speech which only means the government won’t interfere with our freedom to speak. Efforts to create a national health insurance have existed in the United States for the past 100 years. You can get legal forms from the internet. Yet, despite the erosion of the public system, the contrast between these two facilities, the former fully private, the latter fully public, couldn't be greater. Statements like the ones above or from Shapiro (and those of his ilk) do not endear conservative values to the public. Your rights can be violated by individuals or the state. Perhaps you can argue that taxes are paid voluntarily, but you know that’s not true. We have a “right” to trial by jury in this country, only because government exists, and has offered us certain protections against itself. You are the one who is quite predictable. A properly functioning supply chain is a critical part of ensuring commodity security— Winning the fight for a National Improved Medicare for All health care system is possible. It sounds like you are an unprincipled thief who knows better but chooses to be both unprincipled and a thief. Yep, we can’t. “Why do tariffs need to be on the table at all?”. Washington, DC 20036, Main telephone: 202.862.5800 Just for fun. . As John Locke said, the purpose of government is to secure and protect the God-given inalienable natural rights of the people. To elaborate further, on the question of rights, we should consider whether there are any positive rights at all. It also doesn’t address the monopoly issue of the provision of such services. Because medical care is a commodity, and treating it otherwise is foolhardy. They were actually keenly aware of how controversial these claims were. “Ok then. We are often told that politics involves compromise, but some compromises undermine our goal. y point is every job is outsourceable including the CEO job. two of the most beautiful words in the English language. Jim Kavanaugh of The Polemicist argues that S 1804 may actually be a “Trojan Horse” for the Democrat’s favored proposal, a public insurance they refer to as a ‘public option’ being added to the current mix. no court action. Imagine my surprise that you still don’t have a valid argument against natural rights. For them it is better to be ruled in accordance with this sort of rule, if such is the case for the other things mentioned.”. Jury nullification would seem to be one more barrier between the accused and an unjust law, or against unwarranted prosecution where conviction would result in injustice. We call the ‘public option’ a “Profiteer’s Option” because it will serve as a relief valve for private insurers to jettison people who need care. We urge you to reconsider if you wish to be taken seriously. . As we continue to attempt to restructure how health care is measured, reimbursed and organized, we must hold true to the idea that health care is simply not a service commodity. It sucked, but it’s not the company’s obligation to provide me with a job. The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to achieve the progressive realization of each of these rights.” Yet the World Health Organization ranks South Africa somewhere near the bottom of the globe in terms of medical care. You are absolutely right MP; but, when you live in a wealthy nation, governed by a democratic process, trying telling that to the people and getting elected to office. I assure you, it is a lot easier to get out of jury duty than you seem to think. "As economists," the letter reads, "we understand that universal, publicly financed health care is not only economically feasible but highly preferable to a fragmented market-based insurance system. doesn’t include being forced to pay for others. Being forced to serve on a jury is one example. I think rights are probably our most important social construction. Or something. Pro 2 Instituting a right to health care could lower the cost of health care in the United States. The only thing you left out is the beneficial effects of market forces including competition. A gas tax is always theft. Emergent orders of various types are all around us. It doesn’t happen.”. Would YOU allow someone to die in the street for lack of money to pay for care? No. Why would you want to be a fan of someone who does not understand basic economics? that sounds like theft to me, although it’s probably one of the fairest forms of theft – if there is such a thing. >—-“BTW thanks for reminding me why I no longer respond to Greg Webb. “When the founders said “We hold these truths to be self evident…” they weren’t literally claiming that they were self evident.”. I could also say something like this: “We hold this truth to be self evident: that gravity exists as a natural force in the known universe, and that it operates such that every object with the property of mass in the universe attracts every other object with mass as follows:”. Shit, we’re down to 75%? Government must think its fair too. Because you don’t get elected if you don’t promise them? Mostly they are cheaper. Taking money from people under threat of force is always called theft. There is nothing “magical” about this. I think the analogy would have to be, society is forcing some health norms on you so you would expect the health care required to meet those norms to be provided. “You just don’t see other species respecting rights and forming either representative governments or your beloved bowling leagues. Is it a tax, if it pays for services received? I had almost forgotten. Personally, I think you guys are the lunatics. You would do much better if you used logic and objective and verifiable facts. But I suppose when you have nothing to argue on, personal attacks are all you can do…, “knowing full well in the comfort of their tax-payer subsidised tenured academic positions that they are sheltered from the negative effects of trade…. if you do not pay your tax, nothing happens. “Consider what would happen if you were in an accident, unconscious, and didn’t have your insurance information in your pocket.”. To argue otherwise is simply a disingenuous argument using natural rights language incorrectly. A gas tax is theft. So they use their preemptory challenges on to get them off. I can recall one instance when I had trouble finding a spot to pull off the road to change a flat tire without running over several corpses. Yep. But that’s also true of government-sponsored medical care, as the most honest advocates will admit. BTW, I will keep pointing our your hilarious mistakes. They are, especially when the amounts collected exceed the amounts necessary to perform legitimate government functions. *paste* Taking money from people under threat of force is always called theft. CTRL + SPACE for auto-complete. Even Fareed Zakaria, conservative host of CNN, understands this. Please explain how we can all voluntarily discriminate based on race through HOA agreements. Smith breaks up the past one hundred years into five phases and argues that in each phase, compromises were made that failed because they did not meet the fundamental criteria of covering everyone and achieving effective governmental oversight. That is because you are an idiot who cannot make a logical argument for tariffs. I do believe that both markets and nation states represent good examples of emergent order. Even Breitbart kicked him out. Thank you to all of you who wrote to his office. Or does it depend on the situation? The Aristotle’s argument is basically that those who may be enslaved are inferior and not fully human. No, it did not. So, why don’t they? With just a week left before Congress’ budget reconciliation process ends, the Senate is once again peddling a poorly-thought out plan to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act (ACA). They are against any tariffs. could we not manage all volunteer juries? “My point is that, when people invoke natural rights they are stating their assumptions and values, not proving their conclusions.”. If it is good for cars, it should be good for any desk job too. “This suggests that you have been reading comments by Greg Webb.”. The purpose of government is to secure natural rights. I read his comments less and less but I am ambivalent about skipping them because that can mean missing some hilarious bits of unintended irony. They are “progressive” values. They were actually keenly aware of how controversial these claims were. It was just your typical name calling and disparaging statements that you do when you know you are wrong. Health historian, David Barton Smith, writes (in a draft chapter) that the fundamental struggle in the US has been over the question of whether health care is a commodity … it can just be exclusionary. There is nothing in our nature or God given, if you prefer, about a trial by a jury of our peers. I wonder if there’s a connection? Thankfully Trump is all over this issue. Why is the price higher for essentially the same service? Ultimately, the goal of every public health logistics system is to help ensure that every customer has commodity security. You are better than your friend, Greg Gossip who believes that government grants your rights, but not much. Hopefully, Ram and you will come up with some logic and objective, verifiable evidence to support that tariffs will benefit the US economy. It is unfair for people like you to limit my trades because you don’t like how I peacefully spend my own money. Oh, I know. Markets represent voluntary associations involving mutually beneficially exchanges of value. i don’t thing that is “elastic” in the sense you are using it. If you get the benefit of what you are being taxed for, it’s okay. That does not make it a valid argument. I mean that’s a yep to no slavery. Good question. If people wanted those things for which taxes are collected, they would pay for them voluntarily, and they wouldn’t be called taxes, and there would be no need for threats. >—-“the fact that people made an argument for slavery and called it natural rights does not make that claim true.”. Taxation isn’t always *called* theft, because some folks don’t want to deal with the cognitive dissidence, of saying “It’s OK to rob me”, but the act of taking from others by force IS. Whether we succeed still hangs in the balance. There’s not necessarily anything wrong with that. Our goal for the HOPE campaign is to achieve National Improved Medicare for All. societies that allow slavery flourish far less than those that do not. As medical student Mike Pappas describes, we need to look beyond access to care and recognize that: “We must address the social determinants of health. The reality of it is that you do not understand basic economics and history so you have to name call and make disparaging statements. You probably didn’t ask to be prosecuted. Yes. But when you have as impoverished a variety of ways to describe ideas you disagree with as you do, I suppose you just have to go with what you’ve got to work with. yet we have had religious wars for millennia. Let me guess- people who draw the line at a point you don’t approve of are nasty. you cannot make a pro slavery natural rights argument. The US makes more with less employees. that seems like the pivotal distinction to me. The use of health care is rivalrous in the fact that a doctor’s visit by one person precludes another Did your comment address choice? Is a gas tax, a taxed paid for by the users of the resource and not by those who don’t, theft? Even if they don’t levy tariffs against us, you still see fewer exports. No doubt that’s so. The problem my employers have is the same one that all employers have: “do we terminate a guy who have excellent technical and analytical skills whom the clients love and go with a younger guy who does not have those skills at his level who have had little connection with his clients. i used to think as you do, but i have come to realize how wrong that is. Just try to deprive anyone who opposes natural rights by taking their life, liberty, or property and watch how quickly they fight you. By imposing a tariff on importing goods will reduce our imports. We each control who may access our private property, what they may do, and what they may say on our property. In that case, why don’t we ship every damn service job including the poeple who comment here. can it claim a right to enslave a mother and force her to carry it against her will? However, that view does not allow you to compel others to provide a service at all. Those who use “those who are different” types of arguments to justify depriving people of life, liberty, and property are not only wrong, but they are disingenuous as well. Yes. How, exactly, can there be such a right without the government’s rationing care, using compulsion to force individuals to provide it, and confiscating mass sums of wealth to pay for it? Unfortunately, based on first impressions, it seems to be similarly ineffective on the “Make America Great Again” folks. but we can still levy such a tax without it being theft. Do not try to have them enacted into law.” And then we explain why he should not do so. How so? No one claimed it was a natural right in and of itself. “In the olden days … sick daughter … doctor … chickens. Healthcare spending is no more an “investment” than is spending to maintain and repair your car or your washing machine. A commodity is a good or a service that is exchanged for money. It probably won’t work. Health historian, David Barton Smith, writes (in a draft chapter) that the fundamental struggle in the U.S. has been over the question of whether health care is a commodity that belongs in a market or whether it is a basic necessity that requires the protection of government so that it is universal. You must be a “progressive” democrat for Trump. “I believe that health care should be regarded as a public good, not a marketplace commodity. there are rights upon which they can be based and those rights are subject to natural laws. “But keep battling Ram – the people are with you and Trump on this.”. Every individual has the natural right of liberty. Period. Why does China, Germany, Japan, S Korea or even Europe try to export. but defining “human” is always a bit arbitrary. Because of the basic economic concept called “comparative advantage”. You have already paid for the roads with your income, property, and sales taxes. Because of the need for healthcare is so important, the America government had to come up with a way to make sure people have healthcare and be able to pay for it. We understand it is human nature that people resist being forced to do things against their will, and to refuse to pay for things they haven’t ordered. Yep. : I = Independence – we must be independent of political parties and willing to pressure all members of Congress, the White House and federal institutions to achieve the health care system we need. “He’s put himself in a unique position to make change. But the left believes that declaring necessities rights somehow overcomes the individual rights of others. Other countries will do the same in response and our ability to export goods will be reduced as well. Yeah I don’t know about this. But this concept of a fair trial is a social construct that exists only because the state exists, and in cases of a jury trial, may require that someone be placed in the service of the defendent against their will. That seems to be a pretty good argument, if you ask me. Those trying to justify American slavery knew they were wrong too. ”. “The Aristotle’s argument is basically that those who may be enslaved are inferior. “That is the kind of reasoning that caused Bentham to call natural rights “nonsense on stilts.” You are trying to simply define away the problem with some special pleading.”. 1. And, it is a specialized type of law that the government has obligingly made so complicated that few understand it and cannot navigate clients successfully through it. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/09/04/ig-report-300000-veterans-died-while-waiting-health-care-va.html, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-195277/NHS-death-rates-times-higher-US.html, “They also suggest that long waiting lists mean diseases are more advanced before they are treated.”, “Also, take health spending as an investment.”. The number of people employed in manufacturing is going down because of automation. Margaret Flowers, M.D., is a Maryland pediatrician seeking the Green Party nomination for the US Senate. In practice, no attorney wants someone on the jury who really does not want to be there. Brick-laying and plumbing income has largely tracked median income, which had been growing until the last couple of decades. it’s only the definition of person that shifts. For many people duty was the preeminent value.”. Because medical care is a commodity, and treating it otherwise is foolhardy. No. That is what the “progressives” said about Barry Obama. This is why we say that the smallest incremental step that we can take in the U.S. is to create a National Improved Medicare for All, a universal publicly-funded health care system that relegates private insurers to a supplemental role to provide extras that the system does not cover. they also get it wrong. Those are all great ideas, and I agree wholeheartedly. “But yes, the hypocrisy can be a little stomach churning.”. The assumption we are making with the NHS bill is that healthcare is a commodity to be traded and patients are savvy, sceptical consumers. Please think these things through attempting to justify your incorrect views about international trade. this way, it’s all voluntary and consensual. . There is a sense in which it is true that all these emergent orders are “merely the aggregate” of the potential of their realized parts but that way of describing it is like looking through the wrong end of the telescope. “It’s not the same service. Healthcare is the maintenance or improvement of health and the prevention of sickness diagnosis, and treatment of disease, illness, and injury. It is the same spirit that says, “You work and toil and earn bread, and I’ll eat it.” No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle.”. “They were actually keenly aware of how controversial these claims were. No one is opposed to US manufacturing. Markets, e ciency, and health care. In addition I am forced to pay for services for others who can’t afford to pay for them – whether or not those people even want the service they can’t afford. I believe human beings have certain inherent characteristics that are observable, and predictable, and that will be displayed by each individual person as they interact with the world around them. They knew that those who said “you work and I will eat” would object to other people’s involuntary servitude. And, children cheer on emotional nonsense because they are economically ignorant. the fact that people made an argument for slavery and called it natural rights does not make that claim true. They are not open to debate for anyone. For example, let’s assume for the moment the government has a legitimate role in building roads. The question is: Who here is opposed to US manufacturing? Rights are socially constructed. Commodity security exists when every person is able to obtain and use quality essential health supplies whenever he or she needs them. “… but we can’t have people dying on the streets because they had no money to see a doctor.”. This includes understanding which proposals are insufficient too, such as the much-promoted public option and lowering the age of Medicare. Join Health Over Profit for Everyone (HOPE), a campaign for National Improved Medicare for All. Same with everything, shift Hollywood out, shift all damn service industries. Have you seen people glorifying that imports are plus and exports are minus to the economy. Do you mean theft is a necessary part of civilization? this seems like a really slippery issue and an impossible standard. But what they might consider to be doable won’t solve the health care crisis. I believe the individual is sovereign, and the collective is merely the aggregate of all individual members, with no superior status of any kind. it’s sort of a finessing of the issue (in a very disingenuous and despicable fashion) but it may be true that some people honestly believed that africans were not people. Sure. “It’s clear that modern notions of liberty have only had currency for the last two centuries. Pure hyperbole. Tariffs are not conservative values. i think you are flat out missing the issue. ociety prosecutes criminals, if society chooses to prosecute, it guarantees a right to defend yourself, including a trial by jury. We created a chart comparing HR 676 and S 1804 and a chart outlining the transition for S 1804. And whereas government-sponsored medical care requires a top-down approach that violates individual liberties, generates overdemand, and quashes supply, markets prize individual liberties, reduce demand (you generally demand less of what you must pay for), and heighten supply through profit incentive. Society prosecutes criminals, if society chooses to prosecute, it guarantees a right to defend yourself, including a trial by jury. . Isn’t importing good. It will take preparation and hard work. Trump knows this – that’s why I’m such a fan. We discuss what it will take to win and how to proceed. but that’s no reason for us to emulate them. By common convention I call these “natural rights”. “As hospitals are required to treat patients until they are stable, you now have a situation where it makes sense to provide basic medical care to treat chronic conditions that often lead to very expensive hospitalization”. In fact the US Constitution and Bill of Rights acknowledge a few of the innumerable rights individuals have, and in every case forbids government to interfere with them. When the founders said “We hold these truths to be self evident…” they weren’t literally claiming that they were self evident. Those are not more expensive than they were decades ago in constant dollars. Not to declare medical care a “right,” and certainly not to dismiss reliance on the market as perverse cruelty. Let’s have a bit a conversation about this. The reality is that most of these guys here spout their hard line ideological positions to the nth degree knowing full well in the comfort of their tax-payer subsidised tenured academic positions that they are sheltered from the negative effects of trade. “I do believe that both markets and nation states represent good examples of emergent order.”. Such a concept wouldn’t necessarily exist if the state didn’t assume the authority to accuse people of crimes against itself, which may or may not have actual victims. give that to me or i shall do violence to you is theft. (imports). The costs of protecting and providing your rights goes hand in hand with the effort to prosecute you. You just don’t see other species respecting rights and forming either representative governments or your beloved bowling leagues. “ The main arguments both in favor of and against slavery were both natural rights arguments for example.”. I do not have a taxpayer subsidized job. Please explain how the laws of supply and demand do not apply when the supply of buyers is restricted on the basis of race. I’m actually in a position that has lots of international competition. But keep battling Ram – the people are with you and Trump on this. If we had the above situation, people would surely revolt. You’re losing confidence rather quickly. Duh. Most interesting. I choose not to pay for a federal department of education. In addition victimless crimes would be much harder to prosecute. As I wrote, it is a privilege granted by the state. Health care as an economic commodity. Kevin Zeese is an American political activist who has been a leader in the drug policy reform and peace movements and in efforts to ensure a voter verified paper audit trail. The market model of health care is a failure. What, do you think you’re being compassionate and caring by robbing some people you don’t even know to pay for medical care for other people you don’t even know? The Canadian ”œsingle-payer” system eliminates these inefficiencies in one fell swoop, by creating a single manda- tory universal plan. Do you know what the argument for trade is? We provide the tools and information you need to accomplish this. Have you noticed that those markets in which government has a large presence are the very ones that increase in cost exponentially, while most other goods and services become more affordable over time? It will add to the economy. “On this point, the left are very good emotive language”. But the bottom line in this fight is profit for a few, not health for the many, and so it is the public who suffers. We spend more than twice per person per year what other countries spend that have achieved this. If I buy internet service and later refuse to pay, the internet service company is justified in using force against me to get its money. But, government is not entitled to charge me for more than the amounts necessary to perform those legitimate functions. .’. always. The reason is simple: we export so we can import. Beyond that, there will still be a lot to do to make sure everyone has their health care needs met. (for the sake of discussion, let’s assume the tax pays for all road construction and maintenance). Duh. the state will not come for you. I’ve asked you this three times now, but I’ve not gotten an answer (I’ve asked other Trump supporters, and I’ve not gotten an answer from them either): Why do tariffs need to be on the table at all? Never mind that many Americans do not believe that public agencies are in fact providing adequate schooling, pollution control, and crime prevention. Another weakness is the exclusion of long-term care and keeping it in Medicaid, which forces people and their families to live in poverty to receive benefits. Heh you’re the fourth person to recommend that to me. Interesting argument. As I keep saying, I’m not against trade and I prefer lower tariffs to higher ones, but I am more interested in the art of what’s achievable.”. Jury duty is compulsory according to legislation. I choose to buy a hamburger from McDonalds and I can choose to buy something from a competitor if I choose, or I can choose to buy nothing at all. As such, I see those characteristics as natural and inalienable, independent of a persons awareness that they even have them, and independent of acknowledgement or respect of those characteristics by others. But, you cannot hire a lawyer from India who knows the ins and outs of the courts, particularly in a speciality area like I practice. That is why it is “related to” the natural rights of life, liberty, and property. The DEA is not a legitimate function of the federal government. Generally wrong roads are typically financed by road taxes, gasoline, registration fees and in some cases property taxes (typically only local streets). Things always change. I was thinking about the history of the Smoot-Hawlet Tariff Act. So you are okay with theft and being unprincipled. A criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person’s consent.”, http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/theft, “In common usage, theft is the taking of another person’s property or services without that person’s permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.”. it’s simply not something that has any enforcement. “, but I’ll take the 75% on offer and the steal the rest later !”. All that foreign competition forces US manufacturers keep prices down and quality up. Whether others choose to respect these “rights” depends for the most part on a determination by the potential violator of the personal cost of doing so. Sure have the private sector deliver the services, but we can’t have people dying on the streets because they had no money to see a doctor. Their plan is to give billions of more dollars to the industry to encourage it to cover our health care needs. In my opinion, no one has a right to something that must be provided by someone else. Great advances in medical technology account for much of the increases in cost, but has also greatly increased the number of positive outcomes from conditions that previously resulted in certain death. Taking the social determinants of health into account can no longer be something nice to do if there is ‘extra time.’ It must become the focus of medical practice. When we win the fight for a universal health care system, it will represent a political sea change in the U.S. that will bring solidarity and empowerment to fight for the many other changes that we require. It is disingenuous for anyone to argue that “You work and toil and earn bread, and I’ll eat it.” And, it is disingenuous to make that argument whether you are Aristotle or Stephen Douglas or Greg Gossip. This will require changing medical education and medical practice.”. Open the monopoly provision of government services to competition and watch the market work its magic as it does for all other goods and services. Imports and exports are good for an economy. I don’t say that to trivialize them. So why aren’t all jobs outsorced? Healthcare is a right, not a commodity. This works for every example I know of, but I can’t prove it, and I can’t prove gravity exists except by observing it’s predictable effect on objects I can observe. Just let your company know what you are doing. Thus, it is “related to” a natural right. I suspect many people share that view. the way we do such a thing is to take the compulsion out. Write CSS OR LESS and hit save. I mentioned health care as a right for every single American, and he said that it is either a right, or a commodity, that can be bought, sold, and bartered, like any other service or good. They are against any tariffs. I practice law for a living. That has been the property rights argument for slavery throughout history. . . base a society on them and it will either stay up or fall down. It has strengths and similarities to HR 676 as well as weaknesses. ” . i could care less what you or the state thinks is “fair”. As we waited for introductions, he whispered that I had “drawn the short straw.” Tito was more right than he could have imagined. Nation states represent the “emergence” of the dominance of one group of people over another, generally larger group. According to these “experts”, isn’t it good to import everything be it goods or services. It is neither related to, nor an extension of, a natural right. For example if a person is caught and tried for stealing a loaf of bread to feed their starving children, justice might not be served by the imposition of a mandatory 6 month sentence in county lockup. Emergent orders may or may not be beneficial for humans and are often some combination of the two. Nothing here. Ram, are you going to hire a plumber from India to fix your broken pipes. Government, at all levels, has exceeded the scope of their authority. Are you trying to tell me that animals don’t bowl? That is why Franklin changed Jefferson’s original words from referencing God, for he know people regularly deny God, to self evident because he knew that no one but the disingenuous could deny rights that they would fight for if you tried to take them away from them. I generally just toss jury notices when they appear. If not, why do you believe anyone else would? As I keep saying, I’m not against trade and I prefer lower tariffs to higher ones, but I am more interested in the art of what’s achievable. So people should be free to trade as long as they’re satisfied it’s fair? rights are not merely socially constructed. Let Ruthie emigrate to South Africa and see how she enjoys it. Agreed. But your necessity does not change the basic math: Medical care is a service and a good provided by a third party. No. The Trump Train becoming less exciting as the days go by? i mean, people lie an misrepresent that stuff all the time. . every religion thinks it’s the religion of peace. In that case, why do we need to export. As usual, thanks for the laughs, Ron H. I just remembered that you went to a public school and never went to the university. And, it does not take long for them to get sufficient experience to replace you. “Assembled by hand” is as close as one can get without stretching the truth, and even that may soon be a thing of the past. if another citizen robs you, there will be no response. The idea that if I buy something from you, you must buy something from me is just silly. Yes, I remember those horrible days prior to EMTALA when anyone who failed to carry proof of medical coverage with them at all times, was likely to be left to die, bleeding and unconscious, by the side of the road. In which case, you stop mentioning it after the election and hope people forget. Now, please explain why all your rights are granted by government. We meant actual pizzas that are individually assembled and prepared by hand for immediate consumption on the spot. Even Puck could see what fools these mortals be. You’re welcome. It is fair to leave people be to peacefully trade with whomever they want, spending their own hard earned money on the things they want. My point is every job is outsourceable including the CEO job. That’s true, but we were talking about jury trials, which have no basis in natural rights, but are only a convention offered by the state as protection against the state. It is hypocritical to say you oppose taxes, except when you think the tax might benefit you. Health care's new maverickBy Geoff ColvinFortune, August 13, 2012What's the future of American health care?Massachusetts has been leading the way in health care reform, even if in the wrong direction. In the past 48 hours, I see statements such as “taxation is theft” or “God strike me down if I must compromise on my principles”. I want the legitimate functions of government such as national defense. Some we may not be able to do like Hot food. Because medical care is a commodity, and treating it otherwise is foolhardy. Contrast the relationship between the caller and the patient with that of my patient and myself. Angell … Tariffs make countries poorer. But, I do not like getting taxed twice for the same thing. It’s time for a real health care revolution of, by and for the people! Dr. Adam Gaffney traces and explains this trend from the 1940s to the present in “The Neo-liberal Turn in American Health Care.”, Make no mistake, currently, in the United States, health care is a commodity, and the profiteers are going wild. Of course most human “representative governments” lack the consent of the governed, and therefore have no legitimate authority over non-members. Governments pretends to grant us various “rights”, which aren’t really rights at all, but merely promises by the state that it won’t interfere with our right to self ownership and self determination in certain areas of our lives. Treating medical care as a commodity means temporary shortages, and it means that some people will not get everything we would wish them to have. If Abraham Lincoln’s views were “impoverished,” then I am guilty as charged. “A commodity is any good or service (“products” or “activities”) produced by human labor and offered as a product for general sale on the market.” My comment was directed specifically at the issue of paying for the roads you use. Social interactions between two or more people may or may not include recognition of, and respect for these natiral instincts of the other party or parties, but I think that for the most part, people tend to seek agreement on mutually beneficial codes of conduct that provide the most benefits to themselves at the least cost, including voluntary trade, specialization, division of labor, and mutual defense. We also understand it is human nature for some people to arogantly believe that they know what is best for everyone, and that forcing otherwise peaceful people against their will is acceptable. Since buying imports is how foreigners get currency to buy or exports, reducing the level of inputs bought reduce the amount of dollars in foreign hands, which necessarily means they can’t buy as many exports. You work at a job so you can buy stuff. “But I suppose when you have nothing to argue on, personal attacks are all you can do…”. So, what’s the solution for poor people? natural rights may be enumerated by constitution, but this does not mean they can be made up out of thin are. Yep. That is a Constitutional right that has been long held under English jurisprudence. Sorry for bringing a divergence opinion from the stated topic. “ Your rights can be violated by individuals or the state. Fine! None of these things are to “opposed to US manufacturing”. Jon Murphy asked, “It’s [the right to a trial by your peers] not related to life or liberty or property?”. Practically, declaring medical care a right does not guarantee its provision. does it have rights? The weaknesses of S 1804 prevent it from fully transforming our health care system to a public service. they were not “made up” so much as “discovered” in the same way that the arch was and they are not arbitrary nor flexible if you want to build a durable structure. Those folks have a monopoly on the building and maintenance of roads, for all practical purposes, and the ability to extort money from anyone who sell fuel under threat of violence. . If you are sick, you now have the right to demand that my wife, who is a doctor, care for you. I point out how heavily you rely on the same few insults like “disingenuous” and, right on cue, you use the word five times in your next three comments. Undersupply of doctors generally and of doctors who will accept insurance specifically, along with overdemand stimulated by government-driven health-insurance coverage, leads to mass shortages. but it still bears as a natural law. The rest of your comment doesn’t make much sense, so I don’t know how to address it. You don’t think Jefferson meant that to be a first principle that needed no further explanation? They may not know you’re interested. Have you applied for the job? “Of course there is a grey area over where you draw the line …”. Since society doesn’t require us to be sedentary, eat unhealthfully or indulge in other behaviors hazardous to our health, I wouldn’t expect society to compel others to pay or provide medical services for us. It isn’t in itself a natural right. Most developed countries in the world understand health care to be a public good, provided by government action to ensure all citizens have access to care. I’d like to think that might work. Sure not every policy of his is perfect, but I’ll take the 75% on offer and the steal the rest later ! You can’t. No more, no less. BTW we didn’t mean prepackaged pizzas bought at the local store. To go back to my example, why don’t the Red Sox fire David Price and outsource his pitching functions for me for 1/100th the cost? Or increase transparency. For those who say we should have anything less than a universal system, we ask: who should be left out? if it’s just a mass of 200 cells is it a person? Of course serving on a jury provides a golden opportunity to practice jury nullification. Which means that you and others of us who have similar compassion for the poor, including medical providers, would see that those who needed it, but couldn’t afford medical care, would get it, right. While I’masking hypothetical questions for the sake of it, is taxation always theft? Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that she would model new constitutions on the South African constitution, which guarantees that “everyone has the right to have access to health care services, including reproductive health care. No. If you are interested in some really interesting thoughts on this matter, and since I know you don’t read much these days (ha) I would highly recommend “The Problem of Political Authority” by Michael Huemer if you haven’t already read it. Government may use force against me if I refuse to pay. It does not mean cutting the other taxes you are currently paying because government implemented a user fee. At the same time, support for a National Improved Medicare for All single payer health care system is increasing and there are bills in both the House and Senate with record numbers of co-sponsors. I believe in “fair” trade not “free” trade. The government doesn’t compel me to meet certain health standards so they shouldn’t provide medical care. Government services are provided whether or not I need or want them, and I must pay whatever price the seller asks. Why would that be any different than having to pay for the hamburger you get at McDonalds? 1789 Massachusetts Avenue, NW They might change in future. Good thing for you that they do, otherwise you’d be scratching in the dirt trying to grow enough food to feed your family (and not much else). But yes, the hypocrisy can be a little stomach churning. And that he has joined the ranks of the very few people who have been trolling so transparently and repetitively that they have had comments taken down from this site. Let us see how many of these free traders would take up my suggestion. Any person who says that health care is a right or basic necessity but supports keeping the existing market-based structure is either confused or lying. Do you harvest the cotton you grow, process it and use it to make your clothes? “if other nations screw their people, that’s sad for them. . I’ve not read it yet, although I do own it. Healthcare is a commodity—and a finite one at that. I find this view to be inadequate as an explanation of the relationship between an individual and the world he lives in, including his relationships with other people. What happened? Healthcare is not a commodity but a public good; Healthcare is not a commodity but a public good. Jon is exposing basic economics. pay the FAA (which ought to be private anyhow) most taxes can be user pays if we conceive them properly. Thank god for that. One Time. Have you seen people glorifying that imports are plus and exports are minus to the economy. Until then, just shut up. How do you reconcile your belief that the (federal) income tax is theft with your belief that some government services – national defense perhaps – require that people be forced to pay? i would actually argue that the slavery thing goes the other way. And they are never satisfied. Shapiro is a lawyer too so you know he is a good guy. Study it. I happen to believe that there are no crimes against the state, but only crimes against people. Why Health Care is not a Commodity When I tell this story to my students, many of them are fooled. It also protects against rights violations by individuals seeking vigilante justice. may not be able to achieve good health. They are not views. 12 July, 2017. ”. I get calls regularly from clients who start the conversation with “you know that thing you told me not to do, well I did it, and now I am in trouble. I had almost forgotten.”. Sure they are. Yes, they were. In a better world, judges would have wide discretion in sentencing, and justice might be more frequently attainable. The field of medicine must be taking giant strides backward. Sign up for HOPE here. But, then you have to because you can only make disparaging comments. He asked if it was “related to” a natural right. “Personally, I think you guys are the lunatics.”. 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